Early Juan Orozco guitar (Madrid) from Rio (Brazil)

 

The guitar presented here was offered for repair to Mayo

Pamplona. As it is a 1950 (very early!) guitar I figured it

would be nice to start this Blog with. The mother of the 

owner bought it from the luthier in Madrid.

According to what more luthiers sometimes did, and

Telesforo Julve did it several times, is the 3 piece 

soundboard. But Antonio de Torres already made

guitars with a three piece soundboard. The finger-

board seems to be made out of a rather soft kind

of wood. Reddish in colour and I found that also on

some Valencian made guitars that were "ebonized"

afterwards. Sides and back are made out of an un-

known wood species. Soundboard is 7 fan braced,

almost parallel to each other with no bridge plate.

The exclusive looking tuners are pointing towards a high

grade ment guitar model. Same thing counts or the finely

executed rosette in the typical red and green colors of the

Madrid school at that time. Mayo Pamplona states these

tuners to be made in Argentina but that would be a bit

strange for a luthier working in Spain. But a stamp attest

they really are made in Argentina.

The label attests the workshop of Juan Orozco was

situated near the centre of Madrid. So there must have

been some contact with other luthiers there. Possibly

Amalia Ramirez is able to tell something about this

builder whether it is senior or junior.

I've included this picture as the untreated wood of the

back can be studied here. Sides and back as well as the

soundboard are glued together with gluing strips that

that were sawed in order to have the advantages of 

individual blocks as was more common in those days.

A picture taken from the inner side of this guitar. The sawed 

gluing strips were both used for top and back. Moreover the

date and year of manufacturing in this instrument can be seen:

Made in 1950. Dated 29-5-"50.

Opinion about this guitar: Mayo Pamplona

The sound is lovely. The basses are deep and loud, the 

trebles are very responsive and sweet. Maybe a little 

unbalanced in terms of volume between trebles and bass, 

but who cares? It's a really special guitar and it's now 

ready for more 70 years or so. Unfortunately the owner 

doesn't care as much as I do about this guitar. 

( But that's life.)

As for playabiity, Mayo added a 12 hole bridge to be able 

to lower the bridgebone while having enough angle over it 

and a more agreeable action at the same time. Oddly enough

the fingerboard appeared to be rench polished but that

could have been done along the timeline.

Thanks Mayo, for this very interesting addition.

Nice overview of the different guitar factories in Japan

 You can enlarge this picture by clicking on it.

As Juan Orozco was collaborating with Masaru Kohno

and Sakurai, a comparison with Tama is showing exactly 

the same guitars for the world market, Matsumoto on the 

right above could have been responsible for these guitars 

intended for the world market. Later in time even the 

Ibanez Mastercraft series have lots of similarities with 

Tama which is of course no coincidence. The wife of the 

president of the Ibanez company was called Tama, 

hence this chosen name of course. Comparison between 

the first batch of Ibanez Artwood guitars around 1980 

are showing a lot of similarities with the second batch 

of Tama guitars.

Juan Orozco died on February 15, 2020. An enterprising and characteristic person in the guitar world.

Juan Orozco (born 14 April 1937 and died on February 15, 2020) 

Spanish luthier^[1][2] and guitar impresario who lived in New York 

from 1965 to 1995, where he had a famous guitar shop at 

156, 56th Street in the 1970s to 1990s. He is the third in a family of 

guitar makers (his father, Juan Orozco, built guitars in Spain, 

Uruguay and Brazil). He was actively involved in the development 

of classic guitars in the mid-1970s (starting as early as 1969) 

together with great Japanese luthiers like Matsuoka, Tamura, 

Masaki Sakurai and Yairi, who then developed guitars for Tama, 

Ibanez and Aria (at that time the small workshop where they 

worked was in the company Hoshino Gakki who own Tama 

and Ibanez). 

They also built guitars in the Kohno-Sakurai style (models #8, 

#10, #15) that were sold with the "Juan Orozco, Luthier" label. 

Later the Orozco guitars were equipped with a very characteristic 

headstock, different from the Fleta-style headstocks they had 

first. In the majority of user reviews, the majestic volume and 

sonorous bass sound of Juan Orozco guitars are emphasised.

Other source involved in Juan Orozco's guitars: Takamine / Hirade

The Takamine / Kohno / Hirade Connection

The Takamine company is playing an important role in the 
Japanese guitar history as it is known that Kohno experimented 
there with factory built series of the highest quality. Moreover, 
one of his pupils then, Mass Hirade, was involved in this 
process so Takamine labelled their high end classical guitars 
with his name. In most guitars that have the Hirade label you 
are able to find the branded stamp of Takamine in the center 
strip on the seam of the two back halves. The Hirade guitars 
have also been built in different models as there are: 
Model 5, 7 10, 15, 20 and 25. Model 15 presented here 
beyond is in my possession and really should be mentioned 
as its quality is very good. Similarities with Kohno (and 
Orozco) models are there in the binding of the edges.

Here the Hirade / Takamine guitar "Concert Arte" is presented 
with some similarities to the Kohno guitars as there are the edges 
for example. However these guitars are equipped with a traditional 
fan bracing as opposed to the factory produced Kohno guitars.

Another thing is the slightly sprayed inner back, also found 

on the Kohno, Orozco, Sakurai, Tama and even high end Ibanez 

guitars. Sometimes these labels are signed, and sometimes 

not. The real reason for that is unknown to me as the lower 

end models sometimes show a signed label. From 1984 

onwards most labels are signed by Matsuo Furui.

The lightly sprayed inner back can be studied here. My model

15 is not provided with a inner Spanish tongue construction.

Funnily enough the head shape can be found further on 

in this Blog pointing towards the Takamine company.

That guitar is a "Sakurai" labelled guitar!

The inlay in the edges can be studied here.

Very well working Gotoh tuners that are of a high quality!

Decent use of a spruce top, sometimes treated 

with the so called "cashew" varnish.

An example of a Furui signed label though the

guitar still bears the Hirade label.

Mister Mass Hirade between the two Americain

salesmen Charlie Kamen and Eric Emerson. Maybe

an attempt to grow as big as these two salesmen!

The later H15 model still in production at the Takamine

factory. How the quality compares to the older 15 model

is not known to me. The model 15 I posses excels in

playability, painstakingly carved top nut and outer and 

inner woodwork that is of top quality.

A lifetime warranty: Who provides it nowadays?

You are able to enlarge the picture by clicking on it.

The higher model on the left.

And even a cutaway example was produced then.

And even more guitars....

Hiroshi Tamura guitars / Real value of the Japanese guitars.

Hiroshi Tamura

Hiroshi Tamura and his brother were one of the best luthiers in Japanese history. Some experts say that they actually were the best Japanese luthier, who had collected many international awards for his works, even more than great Masaru Kohno.

This is a very high grade instrument, way better that many quite expensive guitars that you might have encountered in the past and considered as great.

His guitars produce a very characteristic to all Hiroshi Tamura guitars, truly Spanish, gentle and very seducing sound. Their guitars are very responsive. Trebles are sweet and clear, basses vibrant and colorful. All well balanced, at very good volume with great sustain. 

Real Value of Japanese Vintage Guitars

The key to understand value of vintage Japanese guitars is to acknowledge galloping devaluation of Japanese yen in 1960s & 1970s. This devaluation was somewhat slower in 1980s. The best measure of this devaluation is Starting Yearly Salary of Japanese College Graduate (SYSJCG).

SYSJCG in in 1965 was 19 600 yen, in 1969 – 34 600 yen, in 1970 39 200 yen, in 1972 – 62 300 yen, in 1975 79 200 yen, in 1977 121 200 yen and in 1980 - 163 000 yen.

During 1960s and most of 1970s model numbers of Japanese guitars were strictly interconnected with their prices in Japanese yen. In late 1970s and during following decades model numbers were no longer strictly associated with their prices. Many Japanese guitar makers introduced model names instead of model numbers. Others were still using model numbers with addition of letter abbreviations or other symbols.

The best and only logical approach while evaluating real value (real grade) of vintage Japanese guitar is to compare its price in Japanese yen with SYSJCG during the year guitar was made.

Any guitar priced 100 000 in 1970 (labelled usually as No10) would be priced 200 000 yen in 1975 (relabeled to No20 or 2000), 300 000 yen in 1977 (labelled as No3, No30 or 3000). Starting in 1977 Masaru Kohno introduced his model No50 priced at 500 000 (and likely model 40 ). Soon other famous Japanese luthiers did the same. By 1983-84 Kohno started to use model names instead numbers and was raising their prices as he was pleased. Naturally soon other great Master luthiers did the same.

Knowing all of that, you can bet on that Masaru Kohno No 50 made in 1982 is practically the same quality as Kohno No 15 made in 1972, or Kohno no 20 made in 1975 or Kohno No 30 made in 1977. This has been seriousy researched.

The lowest grade models currently made by Matsuoka workshop are M75 and MH75. They are commonly considered as “beginner guitars”. Matsuoka model M30 made in 1973 is simply far, far better instrument. It is naturally better than model M50 made in 1977, model 80 made in 1982 or model M100 made in 1990. At present, the highest grade Matsuoka models are M300 and MH300. They absolutely stand no chance in competition with model M150 made in 1975… or model M200 made in 1977.

It is very important to mention that if modern era luthiers are using 40 years old woods to make a classical guitar, its price is at least $8000.

E.g. a guitar from 1969 has very little in common with a model P50 distributed in US in mid 1970’s. In 1969 it was priced 50 000 yen, while average yearly salary of a Japanese college graduate was 34,600 yen. This salary in 1970 was 40000, but in 1975 it was 80 000. The same quality guitar by 1970 would labelled as P60, by 1972 as P80, by 1975 as P100.

In fact Yamaha model GC5 made in 1969 (until 1970) was built with solid Jacaranda (Brazilian Rosewood) b/s and also priced 50 000 yen. Many other luthiers were making their 50 000 yen models with solid straight grained Brazilian Rosewood. Masaru Kohno was making his model 5 with Indian Rosewood. There was no way that Hiroshi Tamura could sell his P50 guitars if they were of lower grade.

Most Hiroshi Tamura P series guitars distributed in US in 1970’s have developed a network of internal wrinkles within the finish. They often break at the very top and create a network of hair-like fissures. It must have been caused by light induced chemical degradation of at least one of the ingredients of the original lacquer.

(Source: Victor ? )

Presented here is my 1972 Hiroshi Tamura which is

an outstanding guitar soundwise. It resembles the

Kohno and Orozco models a bit in sound: Dark low

ends combined with sparkling higher notes. Good

workmanship. A solid fine grained cedar top and 

laminated sides and back but apparently with

Brasilian rosewood. Scale is 655 mm. Nut 52 mm.

Strange thing about this guitar is the distance between

each tuner: Not the most seen 35 mm but 39 mm and

besides that the topnut (maybe not original?) was made

out of some cheap plastic which is a disgrace of course

on a furthermore quality instrument like this. Both

topnut and bridgebone have been changed now to

ivory made examples. Ebony fingerboard. Nut 52 mm.

Sound Examples / Eugene den Hoed

As most of you will know, a lot is constantly happening on

youtube but for some very nice sound examples you should

check: Eugene den Hoed - He plays his own compositions on

a Juan Orozco, I think model 8. Beautifully recorded and played!

We know each other well: He studied about at the same time

at the Tilburg conservatorium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3pAFwi3e6M

Pricelist / Numbering system

Prijslijst april 1982: 

van Wouw B.V.

Molenpad 13 – 17  Amsterdam C tel: 020 – 235153

JUAN OROZCO Luthier Gitaren

Model no. 54  :  Momenteel niet leverbaar

Model no. 56  :  Concertgitaar van Luzon-palissander, 
                                massief fichten bovenblad                       fl.  1135,-

Model no. 58  :  Uitgezocht massief fichten bovenblad.  
                               Massief Luzon palissander klankkast.  
                               Dubbele biezen aan achterblad.             fl.  1335,-

Model no. 8    :  Klankkast van Rio palissander, 
                               mahonie hals en fijnnervig massief       
                               fichten bovenblad.                                      fl.  2245,-                                                                                                                         

Model no. 10  :  Solisten instrument van geselecteerd 
                                Rio palissander, fijnnervig massief
                                bovenblad, mahonie hals met ebben
                                toets, in etui                                                 fl.  2665,-

Model no. 15  :  Speciaal solisten model van uitgezocht 
                                Jacaranda palissander. Prachtig massief
                                fichten bovenblad, hals van overjarig
                                mahonie met dubbele ebben biesscheiding,
                                voortreffelijk instrument.                         fl.  3835,-

At first we can make some comparisons between the entry 
(intermediate) level guitars and the models 8, 10 and 15.
Around 1982 the Dollar / Dutch Florin or Guilder was 100 / 220.
At the moment the Euro was introduced 100 Euros was 220 Dutch
Guilders. But it is allways difficult to make a reliable calculation.
A lot of people are comparing guitars of the seventies and eighties
with those of the present days.
Machinery took over a lot of time consuming steps in the production
process and surely something is happening when an instrument ages.

An interesting comparison pricewise however can be made between 
the guitars listed here above and the Jose Ramirez clase 1A guitars
that were listed at around fl. 6000,- at that time.

Model no. 54  :  Not available

Model no. 56  :  Concertguitar made from Luzon-rosewood, 
                                solid spruce top                                            fl.  1135,-

Model no. 58  :  Selected solid spruce top. Solid Luzon 
                                rosewood back and   sides. 
                                Double lined back.                                      fl.  1335,-

Model no. 8    :  Back and side of Rio rosewood, 
                               mahogany neck and fine grained

                               solid  top. (To my believe indian 
                               rosewood  has been used)                           fl.  2245,-                              

Model no. 10  :  Concert instrument from selected Rio 
                               rosewood, fine grained solid top,
                               mahogany neck with ebony fingerboard,
                               in case (As far as I can make my conclusions:
                               Indian rosewood)                                         fl.  2665,-

Model no. 15  :  Concert model of the highest quality: 
                               Jacaranda rosewood. Top quality spruce
                               top, neck made from aged mahogany
                               with a double ebony neck inlay.
                               ( First grade instrument)                            fl.  3835,-

Remember, not all the remarks made by this Dutch importer I can confirm. 
However, I tried to make the translation as close as possible to the original.
At that time fl. 2,20 was about 1 USD.

Lately Brian Graham came up with an earlier label and  an up until now
unknown model nr. 5! Probably made before the collaboration between
Juan Orozco, Mr. Kohno and the TAMA plant. It is a decently built
instrument but in quality not comparable with the model 8, 10 and 15.
I think it to be from the first half of the seventies. At that time the Japanese
had some problems with a good finishing of the outer end fretwork.
A mahogany bodied guitar with a veneered soundboard to my opinion.
Anyhow the label has that nice "older" appearance.

NUMBERING SYSTEM

As the later Ibanez Artwood 1 series and before that the Tama batch
of guitars do carry a similar numbering I will explain the numbering
system though I'm sure it doesn't count for all TAMA guitars. But
you can rely on it after about 1975 / 76. And at least the 8 digit ones
follow this system to my believe. The Juan Orozco guitars, being made
in the Tama factory apparently follow the same system.

EXAMPLE:

8                        03             24        104
last digit            Month     Day     104th instrument  

of the year        made that month 

This "example"  guitar was made in 1978 in March on the 24th
day of that month and is was the 104th instrument that month.